If you met someone who embodied all these qualities, and they professed their love for you, might you find them attractive?
What are the qualities that we value most in a partner?
What are the qualities that attract us to another person at a subconscious level?
I am convinced these are not the same. For each of us, there is a complex mix that grows in us from our life experiences. As we live, the mix can change of course.
A long time ago, and it might have been in a very bad novel, I read that each woman should decide what sort of bait to set upon her lure very carefully, in order to catch the sort of man she really wanted.
Scary, Franken-relationship sort of thinking perhaps.
I know, a strange post, for a morning with some interesting and yes, strange thinking going on.
So, have an authentic day, and
Hey.... be careful out there.
Not sure about these particular qualities. Sort of see some modicum of each as basic to any relationship. But attracted to someone simply because they embody such things ? Not really. Prefer more entertainment value for a longer term relationship. If it's someone I can often laugh with, a bit of dishonesty or reclusivity wouldn't bother me so much.
ReplyDeleteBut then I'm mainly interested in other women and maybe that makes some sort of difference.
As you say the particulars vary.
ReplyDeleteIt seems unlikely the fish bites the lure for any complex reasons; Mmmm shiny, flashes, nice feather...
the fish finds it appetizing.
Whatever the particulars, it seems clear we all have a façade, with some being more acceptable than others.
As a lifelong fisherman/woman I can say, with scientifically backed confidence, that many fish strike at a lure as an innate reflex. That reflex can mean the difference between eating or going hungry.
ReplyDeleteSimilarly, I feel we DO react reflexively to someone that "clicks" with our present situation in life. Of course, many times a fish will spit out the lure when it realizes it's just pretty, shiny, or more attractive...that is,if it's lucky enough to escape the barbs. :)
Oh Suzi, I think as we get older, we are much more conscious of our own nature, and what gets our attention. Maybe as you suggest, we are not starved, so unlike the fish, we look it over and accept it for what it is.
ReplyDeleteIf we are very lucky, there is no pretense (as is the case with C and I, both knowing exactly who we are and what that means) and the relationship is an honest one.
Now I am imagining you out in the stream with your hip waders on... very fetching Suzi. :-)
Bonjour Halle
ReplyDeleteMaybe some situations or feelings should not be questioned but
lived all one can.
Most important quality in my eyes is honesty.
Merci Ellena.
ReplyDeleteI do try to live in the present. Now and then the past crashes in on me and yes, it is best to accept those feelings then let them go.
Ineresting.... I guess that would depend on whether or not you believed them.
ReplyDeleteExperience has taught me that actions speak louder than words, people aren't always honest, so a simple profession, I suspect, would not attract me, no. However; regardless of what qualities a person posesses, were they to make me FEEL LOVED I suspect that like most other women, would most certainly find them attractive.
Absolutely a-f, we all need acceptance and validation as humans.
ReplyDeleteWhat is dangerous in the long term is the person who manages to convincingly "put on" the attributes to attract others convincingly enough to even fool themselves that they own them.
In my case, "the strong, caring male" is what attracted my spouse, and maintaining the illusion of maleness kept me in denial for decades, and also kept me feeling like I was crazy most of the time. Sadly, time has revealed that it was not enough to be a strong caring human being. It was the maleness that really mattered.
Nobody should live a façade. It hurts others and eventually it hurts them too.
Is that what love is?.... Acceptance and validation? It strikes me that there must be a great many relationships out there surviving without love if that's the case. Especially in the "transgender community".
ReplyDeleteOne thing you've got me a little confused about is how ones physical sex can be an illusion? And more so, how it could or would need to be "maintained"? I had thought one was iether male or female and that chocie or effort didn't really factor into the matter.
I do agree with you that no-one should lie to themselves or others, however, on occasion, people do. We all have a conscience, morals, that guide us through life and as such, we know when we are being dishonest. If one chooses to do so, should others pay the price, when they were honest and up front about their needs and desires?
And should others show sympathy when things don't turn out as hoped, for those who were knowingly dishonest yet choose of their own free will to be so anyway? Do dishonest people deserve consideration the rest of the world is not afforded? Even those who may suffer the consequences of the dishonest persons actions, from little or NO fault of there own?
Call me cruel, but personally; I think not.
We each pay a price for our choices, most of us must pay it ourselves without the help or consideration of others. That's life, it's not always "fair" how could it be? What's fair to me, my be deemed completely unfair by you, and we can't have things both ways.
Best wishes.
It occurs to me that whatever love is, you are correct that those in the "trans_____ community live without it to an extent, especially in those times when they cannot accept or love themselves.
DeleteNot sure what 'real' love is for you, or anyone else, but having felt some acceptance and validation lately and noticing how wonderful it felt to have that sent my way for being myself and not some imitation I was putting on to make others happy, I was attracted. It feels like love to me, just as you suggested you would find someone attractive if you felt loved.
I know that being told the only way to keep our marriage together is to keep up a pretence (the opposite of acceptance and validation?) has made me feel unloved.
I don't say this as a cynic; I do wonder what 'love' really is, as I do the term 'friendship'.
"Illusion of maleness" - Speaking with male inflections, walking just the right way to convince everyone I was a man; toes forward, shoulders slumped just so, never using my hands when I talked, … perhaps I was the only young person badgered by parents to stop acting naturally (which meant like a girl, then a woman), but while I thought these behaviour changes could only help me (it is for your own good), the sort of damage they did grew in its consequences over decades of living that lie.
Not really sure who is looking for sympathy. I wrote the post because the ideas resonated with me. While feeling my own guilt acutely for some time, it seemed to say something about how people are all dishonest to some extent, even when 'landing the big one'. Perhaps a chorus of "What I Did For Love" should be playing in the background.
Thank you for thinking about this and taking the time to write such a detailed comment a-f.
Those things you describe, how one walks, our movements, expressions, they are not MALE or an expression of "maleness" they are masculine. Typically associated with but not unique to the male sex.
ReplyDeleteMale is your sex. Physical characteristics. If it is simple expression of masculinity that is the issue, then why not just express that?
However, if your physical sex is incorrect there is only ONE thing that can be done to rectify that. It comes at a tremendous cost and only one person can make it happen.
I'm pleased if you experienced love for who you feel yourself to be.
Best wishes.
only ONE thing that can be done to rectify that. It comes at a tremendous cost Yes, I know, but thanks for the best wishes anyway.
ReplyDeleteNo. You don't know.
ReplyDeleteNow you have my full attention.
Deleteif your physical sex is incorrect there is only ONE thing that can be done to rectify that.
and that is...
it seemed to say something about how people are all dishonest to some extent, even when 'landing the big one'.
ReplyDeleteAh, no, NOT all people ARE dishonest, and we can try and appease ourselves by thinking that all we want but that does NOT make it true.
Perhaps a chorus of "What I Did For Love" should be playing in the background.
If one has to lie about themselves to be loved, then it's not really love, is it? How can love be based on anything but absolute truth?
I never could lie to attain what I knew would not truly be love.
I was simply stating that unless one has paid that price, they could not possibly KNOW they might know what they think the price will be, but just as I cannot know the price you pay for your life niether can you know the price other pay.
ReplyDeleteAnd suggest you DO, is highly disrespectful.